Autopilot INSANITY!


#5

Complaint Number: 10908810
Vehicle Identification Number: unknown
Your Vehicle’s Make Model and Model Year: TESLA MODEL S 2016
Note: Your VIN, make, model, and year are all protected under the Privacy Act.
What part of your car was affected? Speed Control, Steering, Unknown or Other
What happened?
This is another complaint about the Tesla Autopilot to try and bring attention to the danger posed to all road users. Here is a forum post discussing how to avoid the nag. pedriscoll, Today at 2:51 PM gavin.belson said: ↑ I have this exact same experience. I have always assumed that it’s like this for everyone, but from some of the other posts in this thread, maybe I’m wrong. Do others find that simply resting their hands comfortably on the bottom of the wheel is sufficient to avoid the “Hold Steering Wheel” prompt or to dismiss it when it appears? https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/7-1-8-0-seems-like-an-update-for-teslas-legal-team-and-a-net-loss-for-customers.77702/page-6 “For me, even though I’m always holding the wheel, I still get the prompt on every curve, and I have to “jiggle” the wheel to make it go away. I keep one hand comfortably resting on the bottom of the wheel and never get a nag. This has been the same since AP was originally released for me. Interesting that others have a different experience” Driving with one hand loosely gripping the bottom of the steering wheel is intrinsically unsafe. Coupled with the false sense of security created by Autopilot, distraction, and sleepiness it means that the reaction time need to regain control in an emergency is dangerously increased. Please look at the overall picture of how Autopilot is being used by owners, it cannot possibly be twice as safe as a human driver as Elon Musk has claimed.
When did this happen? 09/21/2016
Was there a Crash? No
Was there a Fire? No
Was there an injury or fatality? No


#6

Why do experienced drivers drive one handed?
Isn’t driving with both hands on the steering wheel the proper way of driving and for great
control of the vehicle? I’m 16 and learning to drive and I use both hands but why do I see most drivers drving comfatable with one hand?

Best Answer: Overconfidence. Most of the time they can get away with it, but any emergency catches them flat-footed. It is a lazy and terrible habit to get into. Nobody is safe doing that. Every smart driver learns how to hold their hands on the wheel at 9 and 3 (used to be 10 and 2 before airbags).

About 15 years ago I saw a boy of about 13 almost get killed. He darted out from a side street on his bicycle directly in front of the car ahead of me. The woman driving the car immediately dove hard to the right and braked hard, an extemely expert maneuver that saved the boy’s life. I guarantee you she was not driving one-handed… she would still be having nightmares and crying jags if she had been.


#7

Complaint Number: 10909504
Vehicle Identification Number: unknown
Your Vehicle’s Make Model and Model Year: TESLA MODEL S 2016
Note: Your VIN, make, model, and year are all protected under the Privacy Act.
What part of your car was affected? Speed Control, Steering
What happened?
This is a complaint about the Tesla Autopilot upgraded version 8.0 It is clear from the many Youtube videos already posted that owners are now placing even more trust in
the Autopilot because they believe that the radar and other enhancements make it safer than before. Also the message to hold steering wheel is still being ignored and
owners are operating hands free for more than 3 minutes at a time while fiddling with the display screen and taking their eyes off the roads. I will give you links to videos that
have already been posted and I am sure that there is even worse behavior happening off the camera. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=isZ3fSbE_pg Owner testing how
long he can drive hands free before Autopilot is disabled https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G42WdKU11k8 Using Autopilot on local roads rather than freeways with a solid
barrier against oncoming traffic, much of the time hands free. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7jNHFwZ3Ec Hands free, overconfident and using Autopilot in
inappropriate circumstances. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wrm0e5ZO4KQ Using Autopilot on freeway but with a lot of hands free time and fiddling with touch screen.
There are also comments on the videos that the Autopilot braking is left until the last moment and that owners fear it will not stop in time. Then they say that they learn to trust
it after a while This leaves little time to react if the system fails. I believe that the inquiry into Autopilot should not only look at the performance of the hardware and software
but more importantly at the human factor. I believe that this deceptively titled Autopilot is causing drivers to behave in extremely dangerous ways and that this will certainly
lead to more deaths.


#8

Oh but I’M such a good driver…nothing can go wron

Haggy | September 25, 2016
There are a few points, and some have to do with reality, others with law, and some with legal ramifications. Tesla doesn’t “require” me to hold the wheel and only a regulatory authority can do so, strictly speaking. People may say I’m required to hold the wheel because Tesla says so, but in my state there’s no legal requirement. The only reason we are told to hold the wheel all the time, aside from where it’s legally required, are more for historical reasons than anything else. The car controls the steering, acceleration and braking. But even though we are as likely to need to take over any of those, we are told what to do with our hands but not our feet, even though braking might be the most critical of the three, and hand movement back to the wheel might be the quickest compared to getting a foot to the brake pedal.

Since I could use the car literally for hours on end if not for the nag, but need to be able to take over, level three is a more apt description when on highways but doesn’t make sense for Tesla to claim that for legal reasons, and doesn’t apply since the car can’t handle most major functions in general driving. So 2.5 would make sense if there were such a thing. It would be hard to call it inaccurate since there’s no strict definition of what it means.

It’s clear that there’s no correlation between holding the wheel and paying attention, and anybody paying attention should be able to grab the wheel long before there’s any danger of losing control. Even Dave who insists that autosteer is completely unreliable seems to be able to grab the wheel in time. It’s not the time it take to grab the wheel that’s even the issue, but the time to react. If your hands are on the wheel, the reaction time delay is still there. Nobody has been killed for failing to grab the wheel.

Colloquially, it’s a very different issue. We could say that it’s self driving, but it’s clear that we mean it in a given context. It’s driving itself at times we relinquish control and isn’t when we control it. Nobody could get the car from home to a freeway thinking the car could drive itself because the car wouldn’t be able to get them there in the first place. I could say my car is self moving (i.e. automobile) but that’s not true since I need pedals and a steering wheel to let the car know when and how to move. But colloquially we know what automobile really means. I don’t think any Tesla driver should be under a mistaken impression of what the car does, and any comments otherwise (mostly in places aside from this forum) are from people who don’t own the car and may have never seen one.

But there’s a third group aside from owners and complainers, and those are the rest of the world. They tend to see it the same way we see that Google car that was involved in an accident a few days ago. It had nothing to do with whether it was self driving, and even those who want to debate whether the car was being driven manually at the time are missing the point. Somebody smashed into a car owned by Google and the same thing could have happened had it been parked at a curb.

Somebody recently asked me abut my car and whether it could drive itself. I explained what it could and couldn’t do, such as being able to follow vehicles in traffic but not detect cross traffic. He figured I was referring to the case he read about in the news, which he dismissed as a guy who was driving without paying attention and he didn’t much care about that, which he didn’t see as a problem with the car, but had other questions. That’s more typical when it comes to what people think about with respect to whether the car could drive itself.


#9

Complaint Number: 10909802
Vehicle Identification Number: unknown
Your Vehicle’s Make Model and Model Year: TESLA MODEL S 2016
Note: Your VIN, make, model, and year are all protected under the Privacy Act.
What part of your car was affected? Brakes, Speed Control, Steering
What happened?
This is another complaint about the Autopilot version 8.0 Here is a new video that has just been uploaded to Youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SC3lURr6LoQ Tesla 8.0 software autopilot radar change review The owner has just downloaded the new software. He complains that he is disappointed he now might have to keep hands on the wheel because then what is the point of having Autopilot? He tests it out on local roads with no solid barrier against oncoming traffic. He passes oncoming cars and a line of trees whilst driving hands and feet off for 90% of the time. He expresses a belief that the radar now makes the system safer. Elon Musk has stated that the use of radar in version 8.0 means that the fatal crash under a truck would probably not have happened with the new version 8.0. Many owners are going to continue to drive hands free for 90% of the time. This is a giant step backwards for road safety. Please act quickly to prevent people being killed.
When did this happen? 09/26/2016
Was there a Crash? No
Was there a Fire? No
Was there an injury or fatality? No
How fast were you going? (in mph) 50


#10

Complaint Number: 10910303
Vehicle Identification Number: unknown
Your Vehicle’s Make Model and Model Year: TESLA MODEL S 2016
Note: Your VIN, make, model, and year are all protected under the Privacy Act.
What part of your car was affected? Speed Control, Steering
What happened?
Tesla has created a monster in the form of Autopilot. The following quote from an owner explains it perfectly. – green1, Today at 4:19 AM New MDMGSO47 said: ↑ So you can put the top of one thigh under the steering wheel to keep the wheel from turning and you are good?— That’s actually MORE likely to work than using your hands. If I use my hands one of 2 things happens: 1) It doesn’t detect my hands because I’m either gripping the wheel lightly, or am making the same corrections the car is to stay in the lane, or 2) I grip the wheel firmly AND steer against the autosteer and it disengages autosteer, and usually swerves out of the centre of the lane. 1) will cause me to lose the ability to use autosteer after the nags put me in the penalty box 2) is dangerous, and will cause me to lose the ability to use autosteer after I disengage it trying to satisfy the nag I chose option 3) don’t add nags to a system that worked perfectly well before them, and which I own so Tesla has no right to remove features from.— https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/red-hands-of-shame.77954/page-2 — Please ban this experimental Autopilot before more lives are lost.
When did this happen? 09/28/2016
Was there a Crash? No
Was there a Fire? No
Was there an injury or fatality? No
How fast were you going? (in mph)


#11

Complaint Number: 10914848
Vehicle Identification Number: unknown
Your Vehicle’s Make Model and Model Year: TESLA MODEL S 2016
Note: Your VIN, make, model, and year are all protected under the Privacy Act.
What part of your car was affected? Speed Control, Steering, Unknown or Other
What happened?
Tesla Autopilot Vesion 8 is still placing lives at risk. Just read the owners comments on the forums. https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/8-0-lost-or-degraded-capabilities.77927/page-9 Woland #163Woland, Wednesday at 5:10 AM New AutoPilot is definitely more dangerous in 8.0 than it was in 7.1. I have had several close-calls where if I had not taking over, I would have veered off the road, into another vehicle, or slammed into the back of a slow-moving vehicle in my lane in front of me. MichFin, Today at 5:03 AM I was driving yesterday with autopilot at about 80 MPH approaching stopped traffic (separation setting 7). As usual the car didn’t start stopping in time and then when it did begin to stop it didn’t apply the brakes hard enough to actually stop in time. Even the collision warning went off just as I began manually hitting the brakes. I don’t know how we pass this info to Tesla but that surely was not optimal. AP is definitely smoother in terms of acceleration and deceleration, but I can’t use it as I seriously fear for my life. Not good. Blueeyedme, Tuesday at 5:17 AM Well - finally updated and took a 200 mi trip. Aesthetically pleasing to me but functionality took a couple of steps back. Running AP I had 3 occasions where AP swerved another direction. I am confident that had I not been holding the wheel there was great potential for an accident. Several occasions when the car quickly slowed down and came back up to speed with nothing nearby. Navigation was all messed up. Had me doing loops and cutbacks adding many miles had I blindly followed it. Not even going to mention the audio and lack of waypoints, etc…and the new frequency of the nag is annoying. The car remains awesome, but this stuff is going to bite them in the arse if they can’t get their act together. Please can you ensure that Tesla has some adult supervision.
When did this happen? 10/01/2016
Was there a Crash? No
Was there a Fire? No
Was there an injury or fatality? No
How fast were you going? (in mph) 80


#12

Complaint Number: 10915424
Vehicle Identification Number: unknown
Your Vehicle’s Make Model and Model Year: TESLA MODEL S 2016
Note: Your VIN, make, model, and year are all protected under the Privacy Act.
What part of your car was affected? Brakes, Speed Control, Steering
What happened?
How much more evidence do you need to prove that the Tesla Autopilot is unsafe? https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/autopilot-failed-to-notice-a-bus-today.78833/ Autopilot failed to notice a bus today Location:Sacramento, CA Stopped at an intersection behind a bus today at a red light. Decided to look for some new music so I turned Autopilot on, seeing as how I couldn’t see the red/green light and that’d tell me when to pay attention (car starts moving… don’t tell me you guys never use it for this, either!). Was at a complete stop about two car lengths from the bus. Engaged AP. Car immediately lurched forward. Hit brakes fast, which fortunately my foot was already over the pedal as I’d been previously stopped. Sat for a second confused. I’m now about a car length from the bus. Verified my AP was set to 4 car lengths. Engaged again. Car immediately shot forward, hit brakes. Car displayed the warning that an object was in front of me. I am pretty confident that either the car would have emergency braked or I would have hit the bus had I left it engaged. It definitely pulled forward full-power like it does if the person in front of you changes lanes and the lane is otherwise clear. It definitely made me think of all those people who accidentally drove into buildings and such and the little reaction time they must have had to figure out what was going on. I’m quite aware of how close AP will take you when stopped. The behavior was abnormal – not only did this not seem to care that I was already quite close, it accelerated immediately and rapidly when engaging and gave no indication it would quit. Typically engaging it while stopped or behind someone will move forward very slightly if at all once you’re already close.


#13

Complaint Number: 10915628
Vehicle Identification Number: unknown
Your Vehicle’s Make Model and Model Year: TESLA MODEL S 2016
Note: Your VIN, make, model, and year are all protected under the Privacy Act.
What part of your car was affected? Speed Control
What happened?
This is another complaint about the Tesla Autopilot. Just touching the stalk can make the car go to full throttle. https://forums.tesla.com/forum/forums/new-cruise-control-stalk New Cruise Control Stalk The new cruise control stalk that has been modified for autopilot does not have a white button on the end to turn cruise control on and off. The “on” for cruise control is simply tapping the stalk toward you – which is all too easy to do when reaching for the turn signal. If the cruise control’s last setting was 70mph and you happen to be going 10mph in traffic, the car lurches forward in an attempt to reach the preset speed as quickly as possible. This is scary and dangerous. kasnider50 | October 10, 2016 Blue85D, I can’t tell if you’re disparaging my “outrage” or not. But since you don’t have the same car I have, maybe you should be a little less judgmental in any case. My owner’s manual, says that the button (that no longer is featured) is/was how you turn Cruise Control ON. Only in the newer models without a button turn on Cruise Control by pulling the stalk toward the driver. The manual says nothing about canceling Cruise Control with the button, only by pushing the stalk away. So–I continue to wish that it weren’t as easy as it is to tell the car “I want to go seventy miles an hour…now!” when you’re tooling along in slow traffic and simply want to change lanes. More than one person is going to drive this car, some not very often…so I believe it should be harder to engage the “return to preset speed.” You can call that outrage, or you can call it common sense. It’s all the same to me. These cars are being driven by people of varying abilities and can even be rented for a day without any instruction on the special dangers presented by Autopilot More people will die unless this reckless experiment is halted


#14

Otto goes INSANE!


#15

Complaint Number: 10923946
Vehicle Identification Number: unknown
Your Vehicle’s Make Model and Model Year: TESLA MODEL S 2015
Note: Your VIN, make, model, and year are all protected under the Privacy Act.
What part of your car was affected? Speed Control, Steering, Unknown or Other
What happened?
I did not give permission for Tesla owners to drive at me in their 3 ton high performance car while the bug ridden Autopilot is in control of the vehicle. https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/dangly-weight-tied-to-steering-wheel-to-fool-autopilot-that-youre-paying-attention.55681/page-2 ratsbew said: ↑ NOTE: This isn’t a suggestion to do anything dangerous… Can you tie a small weight to the 3 o’clock position of the steering wheel so the autopilot thinks your hands are on the wheel? This could be good for truly boring stretches of road where you don’t want your hands to be lightly touching the wheel for 3 hours straight. Hands in the lap (palms up) ready to take over, but not hovering. immolated, 49 minutes ago My new solution was a 1 lb ankle weight (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005P3LHGI/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1), works perfect. I couldn’t stand the new nag happy 8.0. And to address all the other posts in this thread, it’s completely safe. The nags don’t actually need you to guide the wheel, they’re just making sure you’re paying attention, which I am. I just find the nags to be more distracting and being completely hands free is a better driving experience for me. More relaxed = less fatigue and more attentive for long road trips. Now I can go 100+ miles without having to touch the wheel on routes that would’ve otherwise nagged me 30 times, and AP was flawless with no intervention. It actually let me gain a ton of confidence in how well the latest AP can perform. I’m still paying attention if I need to take over, but it’s way better this way, and it’s the experience I paid for when I got the car.
When did this happen? 11/01/2016
Was there a Crash? No
Was there a Fire? No
Was there an injury or fatality? No
How fast were you going? (in mph) 70


#16

Complaint Number: 10925953
Vehicle Identification Number: unknown
Your Vehicle’s Make Model and Model Year: TESLA MODEL S 2016
Note: Your VIN, make, model, and year are all protected under the Privacy Act.
What part of your car was affected? Brakes, Speed Control, Steering
What happened?
This is how people are using the autopilot: https://forums.tesla.com/forum/forums/unhappy-v8-reduced-autopilot-capabilities Unhappy with V.8 reduced autopilot capabilities Submitted by adam.smith on November 14, 2016 I understand why they have done it but by dumbing down autopilot and reducing its capabilities you might just as well buy a car you have to drive yourself for far less money! @adam.smith - there is a solution. 14 ounces of weight on the left or right side of the steering wheel will eliminate the nag entirely. You can do this any number of ways. I experimented with fishing weights and a velcro wrap to determine that 14 ounces does the trick,12 ounces mostly clears the nag, but 14 kills it entirely. The weight must be placed on the spoke at the outer end, near the rim. I then progressed to using 14 ounces of stick-on wheel weights. However, they are bigger than necessary and have issues sticking on the back of the steering wheel. My next experimental solution was to cut two layers of 1/8" thick sheet lead to fit tightly on the back of the steering wheel spoke, wrapped slightly to catch the top and bottom of the spoke. It is finished with plasti-dip so the lead doesn’t spoil anything. The weight is easily removed when not in use. Products for switching off the nag here: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00IS5EEZ6/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o03_shttps://www.amazon.com/Performix-11203-Multi-Purpose-Coating-Aerosol/dp/… PLEASE STOP THIS MADNESS.
When did this happen? 11/14/2016
Was there a Crash? No
Was there a Fire? No
Was there an injury or fatality? No
How fast were you going? (in mph) 70


#17

Complaint Number: 10930312
Vehicle Identification Number: unknown
Your Vehicle’s Make Model and Model Year: TESLA MODEL S 2016
Note: Your VIN, make, model, and year are all protected under the Privacy Act.
What part of your car was affected? Speed Control, Steering, Unknown or Other
What happened?
This is a complaint about the Tesla Autopilot. Please watch this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WyRwnxzrnAI The driver starts off cautiously keeping his hands near the wheel. By about 7 minutes into the video he has become so trusting in the Autopilot that he drives past oncoming traffic in a road tunnel completely hands free. There is nowhere to escape if the car takes a sudden leap to the left. This is the reality of how drivers are putting other road users lives in danger. Please stop this reckless experimentaion.
When did this happen? 12/01/2016
Was there a Crash? No
Was there a Fire? No
Was there an injury or fatality? No
How fast were you going? (in mph) 60
About how many miles were on your vehicle at the time of the incident? 1000


#18


#19


#20

Here is the thread


#21

Complaint Number: 10981504
Vehicle Identification Number: unknown
Your Vehicle’s Make Model and Model Year: TESLA MODEL S 2016
Note: Your VIN, make, model, and year are all protected under the Privacy Act.
What part of your car was affected? Electrical, Steering, Unknown or Other
What happened?
This is a complaint about the Tesla Autopilot. Here is a thread in which the original poster and many other drivers complain that the Autopilot is extremely dangerous: https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/autopilot-2-0-is-dangerous.89985/ The owner states - 1) When I turn on AP 2.0 while driving on a highway the car swerves like a bloody drunk person sometimes veering so close to the vehicles in adjacent lanes that I have no option but to take over. Its just friggin dangerous? 2) At other instances the car chooses to slam on the brakes while going on curves at highway speeds. Like without any rhyme or reason it’ll literally brake so hard for a second that it’s enough to make an un-belted passenger fly out of the windscreen. 3) At certain occasions I have experienced that going under bridges and overpasses it momentarily again slams the brakes. Like what the heck Tesla? What the heck!? *** It seems bizarre that the owner would not file a complaint and that posters are defending this crazy experiment. PLEASE INVESTIGATE
When did this happen? 04/28/2017
Was there a Crash? No
Was there a Fire? No
Was there an injury or fatality? No
How fast were you going? (in mph) 70
About how many miles were on your vehicle at the time of the incident? 5000


#22

Complaint Number: 10991821
Vehicle Identification Number: unknown
Your Vehicle’s Make Model and Model Year: TESLA MODEL S 2016
Note: Your VIN, make, model, and year are all protected under the Privacy Act.
What part of your car was affected? Electrical, Steering
What happened?
This is a complaint about the power assisted steering in the Tesla Model S and it also applies to the Model X. There have been multiple reports on the Tesla forums of owners having a failure pf the power assistance caused by a broken wire or loose connection. Tesla seems to be aware of the problem but is waiting for failures to occur rather than fixing the problem. This failure is even more dangerous if the car is on Autopilot. The steering becomes extremely stiff and requires brute force. If the user has just one hand loosely on the wheel as is often the case then it is easy to lose control completely. Here are links to threads discussing the problem and also clips of the relevant sections are attached as files. Please investigate. https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/steering-assist-reduced.91280/ https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/steering-assist-reduced.78242/ https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/steering-assist-reduced.78242/page-2
Files you uploaded.
powerassist.JPG
When did this happen? 05/20/2017
Was there a Crash? No
Was there a Fire? No
Was there an injury or fatality? No
How fast were you going? (in mph) 70
About how many miles were on your vehicle at the time of the incident? 2000


#23

Complaint Number: 10994358
Vehicle Identification Number: unknown
Your Vehicle’s Make Model and Model Year: TESLA MODEL S 2016
Note: Your VIN, make, model, and year are all protected under the Privacy Act.
What part of your car was affected? Steering, Unknown or Other
What happened?
This is another complaint about the Tesla Autopilot. Here is a recently posted video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0DPLW8Y6AJg The owner merges on to a busy freeway at 70 MPH while performing the hand jive and turning to face the camera. Owners have misplaced confidence in autopilot and regard the instruction to keep hands on the wheel as mere legal boilerplate. Repeated claims that Autopilot is 40% safer than a human driver make matters even worse. When a crash does occur Tesla will claim that the car was not on autopilot. This is technically correct since the autopilot will disconnect moments before impact if the brake or steering wheel is touched. Please halt this reckless experiment.
Files you uploaded.
jive.JPG
jive2.JPG
groovin.JPG
When did this happen? 06/01/2017
Was there a Crash? No
Was there a Fire? No
Was there an injury or fatality? No
How fast were you going? (in mph) 70


#24

Complaint Number: 10994577
Vehicle Identification Number: unknown
Your Vehicle’s Make Model and Model Year: TESLA MODEL S 2016
Note: Your VIN, make, model, and year are all protected under the Privacy Act.
What part of your car was affected? Electrical, Steering, Unknown or Other
What happened?
Another complaint to draw attention to the dangers of Autopilot. Here is a video of a driver in Europe driving with Autopilot hands free on narrow winding roads with pedestrians cyclists and oncoming traffic: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=chIhRWJDDyc None of these road users deserve to have their lives placed at risk. People have already been killed. Please stop this irresponsible experiment.
When did this happen? 06/10/2017
Was there a Crash? Not yet…won’t be long.
Was there a Fire? No
Was there an injury or fatality? No
How fast were you going? (in mph) 60