Elon's Reusable Rockets faked? Am I really the crazy one?


#47

Atibon… I am beginning to think that you have not enjoyed the benefit of a formal education in engineering
(I know that I said that once before)

" there can be no reaction to the exhausts action if there is no external mass for it to react against, as would be the case in a vacuum"

That statement is simply incorrect.

I am attempting to disprove the webounding wockets by using conventional science and well established laws of mechanics.

If you want to challenge those laws you are very welcome but please do that on another forum.

I will leave your posts up to show what a reasonable person I am but your theories are too much out there for this discussion forum.

Remember I’M the crazy one around here :slight_smile:


#48

Please explain where I have challenged one single established law of physics.

Here is an established gas law, for example:

It states that the formula for the amount of Work done by a gas is Work = external Pressure multiplied by change in Volume.

As the external Pressure when a gas enters a vacuum is Zero, the gas will do Zero Work, regardless of change in Volume.

This is called Free expansion of gas into a vacuum:

https://farside.ph.utexas.edu/teaching/sm1/Thermalhtml/node66.html

To suggest a gas will do Work as it expands into a vacuum, as Musk’s cold gas thrusters are claimed to do, is therefore to violate conservation of energy, which is the basis for the first law of Thermodynamics:

http://web.mit.edu/16.unified/www/FALL/thermodynamics/notes/node14.html

If you see anything wrong with my analysis please point it out, and provide reputable citations in doing so.


#49

That patent was clearly filed by an idiot.
(that happens a lot :slight_smile: )

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=eYQHIjkaEroC&pg=PA39&lpg=PA39&dq=joule+free+expansion+conservation+of+energy&source=bl&ots=lNNu7CV1-P&sig=YMAwtaJTmLf7BF4Ts4jcWzVTY98&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjWv6XJh6rPAhXEOxoKHXskDjw4ChDoAQgfMAE#v=onepage&q=joule%20free%20expansion%20conservation%20of%20energy&f=false

Lots of impressive looking formulae but nothing that negates Newtons 3rd Law.

I’ll draw a very simple diagram to show how it works.

When you have one end open (like a balloon or a wocket) the pressure acts on the front end only and makes the wocket go forward.


#50

You seem to be unaware that pressure is a scalar quantity:

You also seem to believe that Thermodynamics are inferior to Newtons laws of motion - they are not:

Most seriously though, you are directly contradicting the physical fact of Free expansion of gas into a vacuum - here it is again:

I quote:“When a gas expands into a vacuum there is no opposing force”.

Ergo, Newton’s third law cannot apply during free expansion and no motion can be produced.

Also, please provide citations from reputable sources rather than insults and crude drawings, it would help your credibility.


#51

Selective out of context quotes do not prove your case.

Your arguments are sophomoric.

No more input on this topic thank you.


#52

I asked you for citations from reputable sources for your claims, the same as I have provided.

All you have given me is insults, lies, threats and a crude diagram that takes into account neither the scalar nature of gas pressure nor the experimentally verified physical effects of free expansion.

Moreover, an accurate free body diagram would solve this situation immediately - yet you refuse to provide one.

You can have your magical free energy devices imagineered by a known conman and liar; I will stick with the laws of Thermodynamics known and used by all engineers for over a century:

https://www.asme.org/engineering-topics/articles/history-of-mechanical-engineering/heat-work-and-the-first-law-of-thermodynamics

Shame on you.


#53

Musk’s rocket bullshit in a nutshell:

Also, FREE BODY DIAGRAM PLEASE!


#54

You Sir are an idiot.


#55

Well I can multiply by zero, count to two, provide citations from reputable sources for all my claims, and most importantly draw a free body diagram of an object surrounded by Zero working mass to show how many force pairings it can create (answer - ZERO)…

None of which you can do, it seems.

Wait a minute…

You DO know forces come in pairs, right?

http://www.physicsclassroom.com/class/newtlaws/Lesson-4/Identifying-Action-and-Reaction-Force-Pairs

This is why a gas expanding freely into a vacuum can never fulfil the dictates of Newton’s third law: because during the expansion there is no opposing force and thus no force pairing can be created (I’ve already given you several citations proving this, yet you are ignoring them all for whatever reason).

I learned all this in high school btw; what’s your excuse for being so ignorant of Newton’s laws of motion, as well as the laws of Thermodynamics?


#56

So, are we finished with the sci-fi bullshit yet, Keef?

Good - about fucking time.

Now let’s look at what Musk’s Thermodynamics-defying rocket fraud is really part of, eh?

It’s this:

https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/world-news/taxes/defense-department-missing-6-5-trillion-up-from-2-3-trillion-in-2001/

Which is indeed a conspiracy, but not one the police and judiciary are unaware of:

Yeah, according to Thermodynamics there’s no such thing as a free lunch…

But Wall Street and the Pentagon disagree.

In fact, enforced free lunches in perpetuity is the entirety of their insane business model.

Ever get the feeling you’ve been had?

I mean, like REALLY fucking had?

Well you should.


#57

Glad to hear you did well in high school.
Come back when you have completed your engineering degree and you have learned where you are going wrong with your ideas.

Satellites are impossible?
Tell that to the Moon and planets!


#58

We only have Atibon’s assertion of high school attendance. Atibon’s posts cast doubt of high school attendance, let alone basic high school physics. Atibon couldn’t have passed my former high school physics class, at least without cheating.

I suspect Atibon has mental illness problems and/or a Tesla plant/spy to try to discredit Tesla critics as nutty, ignorant flat earther types.


#59

KeefWivaneff, I agree there is some shadow of doubt regarding SpaceX’s reusable rockets. However in my opinion they probably are reusable and most, if not all of the non-animated footage is real.

However there clearly has been some deception and debauchery regarding at least one of SpaceX’s reusable rocket landings. Remember they claim they had a “hard landing” but claimed there wasn’t any footage of the “hard landing”, yet they while later footage turned up that it had crashed.

I think it was deceptive calling it a “hard landing”. And it was poor communications, poor reporting and/or deception when it was first claimed there was no footage of the “hard landing”.


#60

KeefWivaneff some of the footage looks a little fishy and it’s hard to believe that a rocket landed in such a fashion without burning the tarmac notably.

However if the footage was faked, then where is the boosters?
If boosters are still in space or crashed down someplace else I would think Russia, China and competitors would contact the news and that it would be in the headlines.

You have made some interesting arguments, though sorry I haven’t gone into it in depth.


#61

The boosters just splash down in the ocean as all perfectly conventional multi-stage rocket boosters do.
Even for those with a poor grasp of the physics and the laws of motion there is one thing that is easy to understand.
IF Musk miraculously made the rocket perform a U-turn in space and fly back to Canaveral at supersonic speed…THE PUBLIC WOULD NEED TO BE WARNED.
Those first stages weigh over 30 tons PLUS the fuel and liquid oxygen.
If the very least thing went wrong the potential impact zone is a 100 mile radius of the target.


#63

So anyone who understands Thermodynamics is now a mentally ill flat earther?

How’d you and your mad chatbot mate work that one out, Keith with an F?


#64

No more of your garbage Batty Bwoy.
Come back when you have completed your education.

_